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Alex's Xmas Blog: 2005.12.23 - 7/7
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Rachel



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you all have a read of this for starters

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/resilience/index.jsp
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chavez



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel wrote:
I suggest you all have a read of this for starters

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/resilience/index.jsp


ZZZZZ

I have see no evidence which links the Leeds accused to the events on 7/7 regardless of the lies you have tried to spin.


Last edited by chavez on Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rachel



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If people on a forum were posting that your fiancee didn't die in a car crash and that you were a liar for saying so, what would your response be, Chavez?
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Prole



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 23
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one are glad you are back Rachel and I hope we can engage in an adult and respectful way.

Alkymst made some very important points about the Peter Power Visor Consultants exercise that took place that same morning.

Peter Power has a very interesting history in the Met and also on the tube. He was also second in command at the Libyan Peoples' Bureau siege where a policewomen was shot. It is now known that the shot did not come from the embassy.

Quote:
The official view that WPC Fletcher was fired upon and killed by someone in the embassy has been questioned by various parties, to the extent that the controversy surrounding Fletcher's death has led to Tony Blair being questioned on the matter in parliament . In a Channel 4 program, several experts in various fields such as pathology and ballistics raised serious concerns over bizarre oddities in the official version of events such as the velocity of the bullet and the angle at which it entered WPC Fletcher's body. They believe that elements of British Intelligence, using a building in the Square at the time, shot WPC Fletcher for reasons involving trade and the U.S. Governments wish to bomb Libya, as Yvonne's murder was a major factor contributing to the British Government allowing the U.S. to use British airfields in their bombing raid on Tripoli.


See here for the King's Cross fire which killed 27:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/november/18/newsid_3267000/3267833.stm

Here he is on another fire on the tube (just by 'coincidence'):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/november/23/newsid_3227000/3227456.stm

Quote:
Suddenly through the crowd came a lot of agitation and the train driver fought his way back from the front, covered in soot, and demanded that we get out of London Transport property.
He was bundled into our compartment and one of us decided to give him a certain bit of advice to his face and he was knocked out.


From the Visor Consultants website:
Quote:
Peter has a senior Scotland Yard background which includes setting up the multi agency operational management structure at the Kings Cross fire, secondment to the Anti Terrorist Branch, deputy forward control coordinator at the Libyan People Bureau siege and leading the team behind the existing police street philosophy for dealing with terrorist bombs. He is also the primary author / promulgator of the present UK Police command methodology Gold, Silver & Bronze


That the intellegence agencies are 'behind' many of the events which then play out on our TV screens as a 'problem - reaction - solution' is well documented.

Perhaps the role of the Iqra bookshop in Beeston, Leeds which was run by none other than an ex-SBS (Special Boat Services) anti-terrorist operative who had 'converted' to Islam, Martin 'Abdullah' McDaid, may hold some of the keys to the events in London on 7th July?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15760968&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=exclusive--bombers-and-the-special-forces-soldier-name_page.html

The SBS are an elite group of 250 Royal Marines who pride themselves on being more clandestine than the SAS.

Whitewater rafting anyone?
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chavez



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel wrote:
If people on a forum were posting that your fiancee didn't die in a car crash and that you were a liar for saying so, what would your response be, Chavez?


You are one twisted individual.
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Rachel



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chavez, I am not saying that your fiancee didn't die in a car crash, and I am very sorry that you have suffered such terrible trauma. But I am asking you to empathise, surely someone like you who has suffered can see my point - can't you see that I was in a carriage where 26 people died feet away, and then how upset I might be to be told that I am a liar for saying so?


Prole I am writing a response tp your question, will be back in a moment
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Rachel



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bridget,

I can see that this on the surface looks very interesting.

However, I am satisfied by the Channel 4 debunking.
http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=372

If you were a large comany that employed 1000+ people, then one of the things you would look at is what would happen in the event of a crisis. Mostr companies have some sort of contingency plans, especially since 9/11. Even tiny companies have regular fire drills! Agreed?

TfL did have a big practise using real people at Bank station and this was covered in the media. But the Visor practice seems to have been a standard 'on paper' exercise. All wild speculation has failed to pick up on th eobvious, basic point.

As to Power's background, well, with his previous training it is a sensible idea to set yourself up as a security expert as a career next step, for he clearly has the skills to be one.

Quote:
As Power explained, the London bombing scenario was in fact one of three explored: another looked at the disruption that might be caused by unruly anti-globalisation demonstrators. In no case was there any real mobilisation of physical or human resources, which makes the case for 'planned' intelligence alibi look awfully flimsy, if not downright silly.

In the light of a brief interview with Power, the 'unbelievable' coincidence of events suddenly seems entirely comprehensible: the train stations targeted, after all, were all in central London -- any planner would pick these amongst a list of possible targets.


http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=372&parasStartAt=1

So I am satisfied with this widely reported debunking of the theories doing the rounds - it makes far more sense than the alternative theories which include the Antagonist's insistence that there were no bombs - the bus was full of ''actors and stuntmen'' using ''pyrotechnics'' and the bombs were simply ''power surges'' - this is simply not true.
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Rachel



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That one ex- special forces soldier converted to a militaristic form of Islam is not that surprising either.

And that young men are drawn to a gung-ho, theology-lite, action- heavy ideology, that encourages macho pursuits like white water rafting and survivalist exercises to train for 'jihad', along with the watching of atrocity DVDS, following inflammatory sermons and raising money to 'fight a holy war ' - in Afghanistan, Iraq or on the tubes of London - is sadly not that surprising either. A cursory trawl through the idealogies of 'Islamic' extremist ideaology and websites, talking to local Muslims who were outraged and who complained about the takeover of my local mosque at Finsbury Park - subesequently revealed to be full of 'jihad' literature, wannabe combatants and survival/fighting manuals and even convertible weapons - proves the point still further.
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Prole



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel, I take it you cannot even remotely consider that the intellegence services fund and plant operatives in Muslim areas? That the intellegence services are behind most of the events which lead to 'problem - reaction - solution'? In your mind what we are told is an 'Islamofascist' idealogy is what is really behind all these events?

Read: http://antagonise.blogspot.com/2006/02/islam-intelligence-and-infiltration.html

It seems to many of us that the only people who benefit from any of these events (including the staged protests against the Danish cartoons) are not Muslims, but the true beneficiaries of this war OF terror, the State (be it US or UK) and Corporate Capitalism.
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Rachel



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course intelligence service have spies in Muslim areas; a young man - at my local mosque in Finsbury Park was asked by m15 to report on Hamza and did so. Other local Muslims also tipped off the authorities about the fanatical hate campaign flourishing there uider the extremist preacher's teaching.

I suggest you google David Leppard who has much interesting stuff to say on the subject; he is an investigative reporter for the Sunday Times and has done a lot of stuff on the rise of Islamic extremism and the leaks from M15 about how they have struggled to tackle the problem. (No, I am not just going on about him because I have also written for a different bit of the ST BTW)

Prole - all of you - why cannot you accept that there really is an extreme Islamofacist ideaology and that some unfortuntely practise and preach it?


When conspiracy theorists say that it is all the doing of the State this is eagerly picked up by its followers, for this allows them to absolve themselves of blame for the murderous terror acts - they blame the State for doing it, they blame the State for instigating it, they blame the State for ''stirring it up against Muslims'' - they blame everyone but themselves for it, they even seek to justify it - they won't accept it for what it is - mass murder - instead they call it a war - and they blame ordinary people for it and elected leaders for it and they bomb them.

I don't agree with the occupation of Iraq. At all. But I am not going to suicide bomb people to make that point. And I am not going to run around the internet saying that dark forces of the State have an agenda to bomb trains in order to make us all get behind an oil war - for this is nonsense. Supprt for the war has declined , Blair's popularity has declined, unfortunately some anti-terror legislation and draconian legislation like ID cards has got through. Yes, Blair's government are trying to use the 'war on terror' for their own ends but this is cynical manipulation of an existing situation - there really are extremists and there really is a political idealogy masquerading as a religion and it bombed 3 trains & a bus on 7th July, or young men who believed in it did.

And this political ideaology pretending to be a religion is doing a very great deal of damage to ordinary Muslims.

Conspiracy theories are not harmless; it is convenient to say 'oh it is all the shadowy Government agents ' and there is no such thing as Islamofacism - but I am afraid that there is. I wish that you would face up to this. I can't understand why you won't even consider it?

I am not a fan of the Government. I believe the illegal Iraq war and the aggressive reaction to 9/11 has contributed to the rise of extreme and violent idealogies. I do, however have no problem believing that such ideaologies exist: I have seen them in action.
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chavez



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm frankly sick of you spinning lies for the government. Why don't you grow some brain cells and ask real questions about what happened on 7/7?

ALL YOUR LIES ARE DOING A GREAT DEAL OF DAMAGE TO ORDINARY MUSLIMS


At present, the London underground has an analogue video network and video transmission at 180 stations. Confirmed by new reports, there are close to two thousand video cameras which monitor London's Underground and mainline rail stations.

It is estimated that "the average Briton is caught on various cameras up to 300 times on a normal day." (The Age, 8 July 2005).

The key issue raised in this commentary refers to videocameras inside the underground carriages. In most European metro systems, the trains are equipped with a videowatch installation, with video cameras inside each carriage. The driver of the train is able to see inside each of the carriages, and the digital video files would be available to police investigators.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


EVERY London bus and Underground train car has multiple Video Cameras!


The Police claim the bus videos malfunctioned, but made no similar claim about the video cameras in the Underground train cars. The Muslim men are claimed to have ridden from Luton to King's Cross where they split up to take separate trains. I've also read it takes about 25 minutes to ride from Luton station to where the bombs were detonated.

Therefore, there MUST be some 25 minutes continuous video of first four men, riding from Luton, then video of each (supposed) "Muslim" Bomber, seated with his rucksack on each of the 3 separate Underground cars, riding from King's Cross - to where the 3 bombs exploded SIMULTANEOUSLY!

If the London Police CANNOT produce those videos they SHOULD possess, the accused 4 men, 3 supposedly with rucksack bombs, were NOT on the Underground train cars, did NOT detonate bombs! And the Police are LYING.

The 3 young men from Leeds apparently were innocent "patsies" used in a "False Flag" phoney Blair Government instigated "terrorist" attack! They weren't suicide bombers, or deceived dupes. They WEREN'T on the trains!

Instead of 3 falsely accused Muslim "patsies," either unidentified "others" must have carried on and detonated the bombs - OR the bombs were ALREADY concealed under seats, or UNDER the subway cars - and detonated by REMOTE CONTROL!



It troubles me as to why you are perpetraiting certain lies instead of investigating the situation.
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Rachel



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have not been able to provide one shred of evidence for what you say
I do not work for the Government.
There are no CCTV cameras on the Piccadilly line as far as I know but I am not an expert on what tube carriages are fitted with, I am a passenger who uses the Picadilly line to get to work. Even if there were cameras, I expect that they would have been destroyed when most of the carriage exploded. And since there is an ongoing police investigation, why do you expect all the evidence to be out there - that is not the way with police investigations , nor is it anything to get in a flap about.


This is tiresome and pointless, talking to you Chavez, since you won't even accept that I am what I am. I do not support your hypothesis.Nor do most people. I have every right not to, and it strikes me that whatever proof anyone provides you are not going to accept it, just as you are not going to accept who it is you are talking to. You are insistent that I am not real. So there is no point continuing to talk to you, you just rail at me but you don't discuss.

I am not going to engage with people who cannot accept this simple basic fact that they are talking to a woman who was on the train on that day.
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Prole



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I aked London Underground about the CCTV cameras on the trains and here is their reply:
Quote:
Most trains now have CCTV and it is being added to older trains as they are refurbished and fitted on new trains as standard. You may have seen the images from train CCTV of the 21 July Oval suspect.


http://bridgetdunnes.blogspot.com/2005/09/reply-from-london-underground.html

It is a valid point that the CCTV image from the train has been released from the 21st July 'no-bombs' suspect, yet none from the 7th July. If it was truly due to an 'on-going' investigation then why does that not apply to July 21st, for which there will be a court case in the far distant future, and not to 7th July, for which these 4 young men will not have the chance to appear in court?
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Rachel



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that they don't have the pictures: certainly most of the carriage I was on was destroyed. so I would doubt that CCTV footage existed now. Even if they did have the pictures, it would be very unsettling and distasteful to have the image of the bomber surrounded by passengers, blowing himself up - for victims and survivors especially, and for the public at large.
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Prole



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what 'evidence' do you base your knowledge of who was reponsible for the events of 7th July on then, Rachel?
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