Originally posted by Cyber Mole: It was the CIA !!!! Obvious really
what's funny is that these conspiracy theorists often say "the governments did this to justify the invasion of Iraq."
However, not one of the 9/11 or 7/7 accused bombers were Iraqi. do you think that maybe if the government were to plan such an operation to justify the Iraq operation they would have at least have made a couple of the bombers Iraqi??
Or did they just forget?
I don't know why they have to justify anything really. They can just do what they want and there's f#ck all we can do about it for another 3/4 years.
Winston Smith Posted 09-05-06 17:20 quote: Originally posted by theodor: We all know fullwell who comitted suicide bombings In london last year and it was a group of British muslims. We have their video testimonies to prove it.
We have video testimony of Siddique Khan, a well-loved teacher and ex-DTI employee who promoted Britain abroad.
...and blew himself up deliberately murdering scores of innocents, like many other middle class muslims who have done in many other parts of the world.
Originally posted by Gunners999: There's not a huge amount to get excited about here IMO but I found the below interesting...
quote:
BOMBERS COULD NOT HAVE CAUGHT THE 7.40am TRAIN FROM LUTON - The Met claimed the alleged bombers caught the 7.40 Thameslink train from Luton to Kings Cross but this train was CANCELLED. BBC2's Horizon reported that they caught the 7.48 train. This train arrived in London at 8.43, some 17 minutes AFTER the police say they have CCTV of the men at King's Cross. If the alleged bombers caught an earlier train from Luton then SHOW US THE EVIDENCE and explain the inconsistencies. *
NO CCTV FOOTAGE SHOWN OF THE FOUR ALLEGED BOMBERS IN LONDON! Why? Since when did one poor-quality photograph in which three of the faces cannot be identified, said to be taken 30 miles away at Luton, count as conclusive evidence?
Claims that the men caught the 07:40 come from the media. Thameslink have confirmed that trains were timed to leave Luton that morning at 07:16, 07:20, 07:24 and 07:30. The bombers were spotted on CCTV at 07:21 and caught the 07:24 which actually left at 07:25 and arrived at London Kings X at 08:23 giving them plenty of time to get to their intended final destinations and be picked up by the CCTV system at Kings X at 08:26.
As usual there's no real mystery when you look at the facts.
Originally posted by Gunners999: There's not a huge amount to get excited about here IMO but I found the below interesting...
quote:
BOMBERS COULD NOT HAVE CAUGHT THE 7.40am TRAIN FROM LUTON - The Met claimed the alleged bombers caught the 7.40 Thameslink train from Luton to Kings Cross but this train was CANCELLED. BBC2's Horizon reported that they caught the 7.48 train. This train arrived in London at 8.43, some 17 minutes AFTER the police say they have CCTV of the men at King's Cross. If the alleged bombers caught an earlier train from Luton then SHOW US THE EVIDENCE and explain the inconsistencies. *
NO CCTV FOOTAGE SHOWN OF THE FOUR ALLEGED BOMBERS IN LONDON! Why? Since when did one poor-quality photograph in which three of the faces cannot be identified, said to be taken 30 miles away at Luton, count as conclusive evidence?
Claims that the men caught the 07:40 come from the media. Thameslink have confirmed that trains were timed to leave Luton that morning at 07:16, 07:20, 07:24 and 07:30. The bombers were spotted on CCTV at 07:21 and caught the 07:24 which actually left at 07:25 and arrived at London Kings X at 08:23 giving them plenty of time to get to their intended final destinations and be picked up by the CCTV system at Kings X at 08:26.
As usual there's no real mystery when you look at the facts.
Except some people don't like the facts....hence conspiracy theories
Originally posted by Jim of the south: What rubbish - these people havent even protested their innocence! - Theyare as guilty as sin!
They're dead! What do you expect them to do?
However, I think we've previously answered at least some of Kline's issues on this very forum, such as going to the TFL journey planner website, to confirm that they could have made the journey in the time given.
Originally posted by Cyber Mole: It was the CIA !!!! Obvious really
what's funny is that these conspiracy theorists often say "the governments did this to justify the invasion of Iraq."
However, not one of the 9/11 or 7/7 accused bombers were Iraqi. do you think that maybe if the government were to plan such an operation to justify the Iraq operation they would have at least have made a couple of the bombers Iraqi??
Or did they just forget?
Sloppy. I'm sure you don't really need it spelling out, uefa, you've been here at least as long as me. Lazy bones, sleeping on the job... Still... The Reichstag MO is to attempt to gain support, either directly or indirectly, through coercion by invoking a reaction to events without the need for open scrutiny of the facts. The aim is to squeeze the legislation, make it look perfectly reasonable under the circumstances, hide the true context of those circumstances, control the population, and use that controlled population to support the War Effort either morally or physically or both.
The Iraqi invasion would have happened with or without 9-11. It was a stated aim of PNAC for years. Any of the Big Guns at the top of the tree, assuming they ARE at the top of the tree, will think far more long term than your average J Public. Factions of power remain important factors in the way things pan out. Oooh, but wait, that's Volume II material. Lateral shifts of a mindset are probably too ambitious in this little corner of perception.
Originally posted by uefa81glory: what's funny is that these conspiracy theorists often say "the governments did this to justify the invasion of Iraq."
The US established the founding movement behind Al Queada, for the purposes of fighting the soviets in Afghanistan. The invasion by Saddam of Kuwait was engineered by the US with the complicity of the west. The invasion of Kuwait enabled the establishment of a US military presence in Saudi Arabia. Al Queada took exception to this. The Taleban were courted by the US, until the former had a change of heart. Then 911 took place. Ideal opportunity to invade Afghanistan and carry out what the US wished for before the Taleban had a change of heart. No one opposed this invasion yet it failed in its public purpose of removing the Taleban and Al Queada and the capture of OBL. Its not the conspirasists who use 911 as a justification for the invasion of Iraq, it was george dubya, despite there being no iraqi involvement with 911, george invades confiscates all iraqi national assets and transfers their ownership to the american private sector.
In the UK the war on terror is not so gleefully accepted as it was in the US. Hence 7/7 occurs. This enables draconian legislation to be enabled; the UK patriot act if you like. This legislation with the forthcoming enactment of the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill, will permit our government powers never before witnessed.
Why do all this? Why play out such incredible conspiracies? Work it out.
Originally posted by Jim of the south: What rubbish - these people havent even protested their innocence! - Theyare as guilty as sin!
They're dead! What do you expect them to do?
However, I think we've previously answered at least some of Kline's issues on this very forum, such as going to the TFL journey planner website, to confirm that they could have made the journey in the time given.
That was the only inconsistency I was interested in ! Bummer, another conspiracy theory ruined.
Originally posted by Cyber Mole: It was the CIA !!!! Obvious really
what's funny is that these conspiracy theorists often say "the governments did this to justify the invasion of Iraq."
However, not one of the 9/11 or 7/7 accused bombers were Iraqi. do you think that maybe if the government were to plan such an operation to justify the Iraq operation they would have at least have made a couple of the bombers Iraqi??
Or did they just forget?
Sloppy. I'm sure you don't really need it spelling out, uefa, you've been here at least as long as me. Lazy bones, sleeping on the job... Still... The Reichstag MO is to attempt to gain support, either directly or indirectly, through coercion by invoking a reaction to events without the need for open scrutiny of the facts. The aim is to squeeze the legislation, make it look perfectly reasonable under the circumstances, hide the true context of those circumstances, control the population, and use that controlled population to support the War Effort either morally or physically or both.
The Iraqi invasion would have happened with or without 9-11. It was a stated aim of PNAC for years. Any of the Big Guns at the top of the tree, assuming they ARE at the top of the tree, will think far more long term than your average J Public. Factions of power remain important factors in the way things pan out. Oooh, but wait, that's Volume II material. Lateral shifts of a mindset are probably too ambitious in this little corner of perception.
stop it. It would have been far more sensible to have had some of the bombers be Iraqi if an invasion was planned. Why not?
Originally posted by Q13: [Its not the conspirasists who use 911 as a justification for the invasion of Iraq, it was george dubya, despite there being no iraqi involvement with 911, george invades confiscates all iraqi national assets and transfers their ownership to the american private sector..
Exactly. thus if the US government invented the hijackers (lol) then surely they should have had some of the hijackers be Iraqi???????
Originally posted by uefa81glory: stop it. It would have been far more sensible to have had some of the bombers be Iraqi if an invasion was planned. Why not?
Why the invasion occured anyway and the majority of americas were behind it. The alleged 911 hijackers were Saudi, where's the invasion of Saudi Arabia? Also their crucial flight training took place in Florida not in Afghanistan.
Originally posted by Q13: [Its not the conspirasists who use 911 as a justification for the invasion of Iraq, it was george dubya, despite there being no iraqi involvement with 911, george invades confiscates all iraqi national assets and transfers their ownership to the american private sector..
Exactly. thus if the US government invented the hijackers (lol) then surely they should have had some of the hijackers be Iraqi???????
Originally posted by Q13: [Its not the conspirasists who use 911 as a justification for the invasion of Iraq, it was george dubya, despite there being no iraqi involvement with 911, george invades confiscates all iraqi national assets and transfers their ownership to the american private sector..
Exactly. thus if the US government invented the hijackers (lol) then surely they should have had some of the hijackers be Iraqi???????
Why? Please refer to my post above.
Life is always far more incredible than fiction. To have a conspiracy played out like a novel would be seen through immediately.
Originally posted by Q13: [Its not the conspirasists who use 911 as a justification for the invasion of Iraq, it was george dubya, despite there being no iraqi involvement with 911, george invades confiscates all iraqi national assets and transfers their ownership to the american private sector..
Exactly. thus if the US government invented the hijackers (lol) then surely they should have had some of the hijackers be Iraqi???????
Why? Please refer to my post above.
Fairly obviously, if the US government had invented the whole of 9/11, they would have had no Saudi hijackers, why should they, they would have had them all Iraqis, and invaded Iraq straight away with widespread support. As it is, the hawks have struggled ever since to try to link in Iraq, without success.
Originally posted by Babar: As it is, the hawks have struggled ever since to try to link in Iraq, without success.
In the eyes of many I agree with you Babar, but that hasn't prevented the transfer of Iraqi assets, the establishment of a forward based US military presence, the continuation of the same conspiracy with regard to Iran (whatever happened to north korea?), the complete and utter subjugation of the Palestinian people and their aspirations and despite the nonsense of an iraqi 911 link there appears to be no withdrawal of US forces from iraq anytime soon.
Originally posted by theodor: These conspiracy theories are interesting. I dont recall any conspiracy theories regarding the IRA bombings of London.
The IRA were a far more credible terrorist/military entity with a history of such activities and use of codewords known and agreed by both sides. (Much like ETA).
The IRA were not used as some ellusive scapegoat for draconian legislation used primarily against those its supposed to protect.
Were disaster handling exercises ever being staged at the time of an IRA attack? Did assorted press reports and numerous other coincidentals occur immediately prior to or after any IRA attacks?
Originally posted by theodor: These conspiracy theories are interesting. I dont recall any conspiracy theories regarding the IRA bombings of London.
The IRA were a far more credible terrorist/military entity with a history of such activities and use of codewords known and agreed by both sides. (Much like ETA).
The IRA were not used as some ellusive scapegoat for draconian legislation used primarily against those its supposed to protect.
Were disaster handling exercises ever being staged at the time of an IRA attack? Did assorted press reports and numerous other coincidentals occur immediately prior to or after any IRA attacks?
Of course there were no conspiracy theories then.
Policy of internment was introduced
Agreed, but there were no calls for id cards, conspiracy to glorify terrorism, rendering, guantanemo, invasion of the Irish mainland, etc etc.
Originally posted by Fil2: We do not yet know: 1. where the bombs came from
They were home made.
Proof?
2. who organised the bombers?
Nobody, they planned it all themselves.
Proof?
3. who trained them?
They all attended terrorist training camps in Pakistan.
Proof?
4. which train did they get on at Luton?
The 07:24.
Proof?
5. how many other CCTV cameras picked them up and why the public have only seen 3?
Who knows. anyway does it matter?
Absolutely. We'd have a better idea which train they got on for a start.
6. why MI5 stopped following Khan?
did they ever start?
Yes - how come you don't know this yet feel qualified to tell someone who does know it: "Get a life you sad little person."
7. who Haroon Aswat is & why he phoned the bombers 30x?
Is he even connected with the plot.
That's what we would like to know. Why else would someone make 30 calls to 2 of the bombers? I haven't called most of my friends that often. He's also suspected of being an intelligence asset.
8. how did Osman Hussain (21/7 bomber) manage to avoid the country's "biggest ever manhunt" by getting on a train at Waterloo?
Our police are stupid? Anyway, he did get caught eventually.
That's your answer? A terrorist attack on British soil and the terrorist escapes Britain's "biggest ever manhunt" by leaving the country the most obvious way... Do you trust these people to protect Britain?
He got caught by Italian authorities, was eventually extradited and hasn't been heard from since.
Originally posted by theodor: I find it difficult to believe that people can be sucked in by this conspiracy theory S***E
Stanley Milgram proved that most people won't just believe what authorities tell them, 70-80% will actually electrocute a third party simply because an authority told them to.
I should add that I don't believe that Blair (evil though he is) orchestrated 7/7. I just think they're hiding a lot of incompetence and possibly abuse of secret service resources.
