Cox Forum

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 3 Location: UK

www.spiritualalchemy.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_246/products_id/6795

Follow this link to the DVD produced by a guy called Ian Crane, which looks at the similarity between the events of 9/11 and 7/7; it also includes recordings of the July 7 Radio 5 Live and ITV interviews with Peter Power of Visor Consultants. The DVD documents the evidence which points towards the prior planning of the 9/11 events and the 'necessity' of 7/7 to take the media attention away from the G8 discussions at Gleneagles.

Crane is not your bulk standard 'conspiracy theorist'. Apparently he is a retired ex-Oilfield Services executive, who has lived and worked in both the Middle East and in the USA.

Rachel should go along to one of his presentations, just to hear what he has to say. He appears to have no agenda other than to point out the glaring anomolies between the 'official' versions of 9/11 & 7/7 and the accumulated evidence. Last year he gave about 20 talks on the subject and seems to really know his stuff. I went along to a talk that he gave in Blackpool, which was absolutely brilliant, he also discussed Peak Oil and presented the evidence that pointed at the coming attack on Iran.

Crane is to objectivity what Rachel is to emotion!

On the back of the DVD cover it says, " Ian is not offering specific answers ..... but for those who truly value democracy, it is imperative that they are aware of these extremely important and, as yet, unanswered questions."

I posted this immediately prior to Rachel's last 'Eastenders' style response. There is a pattern of such aggression, vitriol and self-righteousness to postings under the name of 'Rachel', that one can only wonder if she (or is it perhaps 'they'?) is a scriptwriter for the soap? Hiding behind the role of 'victim' is understandable ........ up to a point ...but it is a poor excuse for excessive one-dimensional ranting.

I see people asking genuine questions, only for Rachel to dismiss the questioner as a 'Troll' .... or worse.

It is my experience that the sceptic community are generally well-researched and (generally) ask valid questions that deserve the appropriate investigation and/or response.

Surely, at the end of the day, we are all only really interested in achieving the truth. Aren't we?

Al K Myst

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 24

''
I see people asking genuine questions, only for Rachel to dismiss the questioner as a 'Troll' .... or worse. ''

*Sigh*

Chavez IS clearly trolling , have a look at his posts. I said this in the post before last

''I can now see that some of you are trolls like Chavez, some of you are deeply sceptical and some of you are polite and well –intentioned and think you are onto something'' and went to some trouble to post some data that I know is pertinent to questions that some of you are answering.

And if I am angry it is because I am totally fed up of people like Chavez repeatedly calling me liar, here and on my blog, people claiming I am some kind of government agent or spook disinformation team in order to further their own wild theories. It is insulting and tiresome. I am a real person, who was really on the train that was really bombed. The fact that you can't separate truth from fantasy is your problem, not mine, but my God, it is irritating.

Instead of dismissing what I say as emotive disinfo, why not answer or consider some of the points I have repeatedly raised: if you think this is some kind of black ops, what evidence makes you think so, and why, since it has clearly done nothing to further the causes fo the war on terror, as I have just pointed out...and nobody has yet tried to answer.

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 10

If you didn't continually repeat yourself with such vaccous posts Rachel then people with brain wouldn't question your motives for relentlessly attacking those who see no proof and thoroughly disbelieve everything Tony Bliar and Ian Bliar have said since 7/7.

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 24

And your motives for popping up every 5 minutes, calling me a liar (like a stuck record) and failing to answer any question asked of you , Chavez, notably, what proof do you expect me to provide you with to answer what questions....remind me again? What the point of your contributions on this board are?

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 12 Location: London UK

Another of the things that has never made sense to me re: the Piccadilly Line train is:

The train was at crush capacity, more packed than usual due to delays at Caledonian Road (a fire, apparantly, that has never been reported on in the MSM).

YET: Germaine Lindsey manages to enter the carriage, move to the middle of the carriage between the second set of double doors and then place his rucksack on the floor?

How was this possible? How was he even able to make it further than being beside the door let alone place a rucksack on the floor?

It is these kinds of questions that prevent me from believing that we are being told the truth about these events. There are far too many unanswered questions and anomalies to believe the official narrative is a cohesive and verifiable account.
_________________
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 12 Location: London UK

As someone who has no science O Level, I defer to others where explosives are concerned. One thing that does interest me is the fact that the story changed from military explosives (with timers) to home-made explosives (made in a bathtub?) detonated with button like devices by suicide bombers.

Someone who does know their stuff I've copied and pasted here:

Thus far we have been told that the explosives were:

1. "C-4" - London Times and UPI, quoting French antiterror officials Christian Chaboud an Roland Jacquard

2. "not home-made explosive. Whether it is military explosive, whether it is commercial explosive, whether it is plastic explosive we do not want to say at this stage." - Scotland Yard Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick http://abc.net.au

3. "simple, relatively easy-to-obtain plastic explosives, not the higher-grade military plastics like Semtex that would have killed far more people" - Andy Oppenheimer, consultant for Jane's Information Group (Oppenheimer then changed his story to TATP)

4. "TATP" - the current spin based on the "discovery" of the bomb bathtub and the 2nd batch of "miraculous dud bombs" on 7/21 that were hailed as a "forensic goldmine."

Explosives 101

How do explosives blow up? The operative word is "blow," i.e. gas expansion. A more or less rapid chemically-produced gas expansion can go from bruising your face, as in an auto airbag, to severe wounds, as in a fireworks accident, to knocking your head off, as with high explosive like TATP, TNT, or C-4.

The power of an explosive depends on:

1. the top speed of the expanding gas, called detonation velocity. If it's supersonic, the shock wave adds to the force of the explosion and you have a high explosive (dynamite, TNT, C-4, TATP). If it's subsonic, you no longer have a detonation but a deflagration (black powder, rocket propellant, hydrocarbon explosions). RDX, the explosive that C-4 is made of, has a detonation velocity of 27,000 fps. Of the explosives used by Palestinians, TNT has a DV of 22,300 fps, and TATP has one of 17, 200 fps.

2. the time it takes for the gas to reach that top speed, called brisance. The combined effect of DV and brisance make RDX almost twice as powerful as TATP.

3. the heat generated by the chemical reaction, which almost always is what makes the gases expand so rapidly. The heat of the explosion also causes flash burns in victims and emits light, which is why almost all bangs are associated with a flash. All except one: TATP. TATP produces no heat and no light. Consequently, no one can see the "flash" of a TATP explosion or suffer flash burns from it.

TATP burns the spinmeisters, not the victims

The following story blows two large and one medium-sized holes in the current TATP story for 7/7: Nobody can be burned by a TATP bomb, nobody can see the "flash" of a TATP bomb, and TATP can be identified on a bomb site.

Israeli invention detects TATP explosives
Israel Insider, January 27, 2005

Researchers from Israel's Technion in Haifa have developed a device to detect the kind of improvised explosives increasingly used by Arab terror groups. The new detector, named the Peroxide Explosive Tester (PET), looks like a three-color ball-point pen. The device releases three chemical mixtures that change color upon interaction with the suspected explosive materials.
(. . .)
"To our great surprise," PET's inventor, Prof. Ehud Keinan, Dean of the Technion's Faculty of Chemistry, wrote in the Journal of the American Chemical Society, "we discovered that TATP is very different from all other conventional explosives in that it does not release heat during the explosion. It explodes by rapid decomposition of every solid-state molecule to four gas-phase molecules. This rare phenomenon, scientifically known as 'Entropic Explosion', is reminiscent of the rapid reaction that produces gas in the safety air-bags of cars during accidents."

The London tube trains had no fuel that the blasts could ignite and the double decker's fuel tank did not catch fire. Therefore if TATP was what blew up the London tube trains, no one should have suffered burns. So if the government is right about TATP, all these people are lying about seeing flashes, and they're cheating the health care system by pretending to have burns.

http://www.tos4truth.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=9603
_________________
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 24

The train stopped at Kings Cross, remember - a major getting on and getting off point. Loads of people pushed off. Loads of people surged on. The part of the carriage I was on saw at least twenty five - thirty people get off at KX, freeing up some space temporarily beween the doors, so some people includsing myself moved back a bit, others left seats freeing them up for standing passengers. Then a similar number of people got on and stuffed themselves into the carriage. If Germaine Lindsey was standing at the front of the platform, which was about 5 people deep, with his ruck sack held in his arms, or worn backwards over his chest instead of his back, he would have surged onto the train with the other passengers pushing behind and then detonated his bomb in the middle of the carriage between the double doors. I hope that helps. You might try getting on the Westbound Piccadilly line carriage one at the KX interchange at 8.50am on a weekday as an experiement and you will see exactly what I mean.

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 24

Oh - and I don't think anyone suffered burns from the blast. Wounds, yes, burns, no. One person I know has burns from falling out of the train onto cabling which was still live.

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 12 Location: London UK

Thanks for that Rachel, doesn't explain how he managed to put his rucksack on the floor. As for surging forward, you told me on other forums that Germaine Lindsay was identified by a fellow passenger who was standing next to him on the platform as they both tried to enter the carriage, who had to give up attempting to get on the carriage as it was so packed.
My experience of getting onto packed trains is that it is hard not to get squashed next to the doors.
_________________
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 24

Yes - the other passenger was at the edge of the door.

If you are at the front of the platform waiting to get on the train but not directly facing the door when the train stops, when queueing to get on, it is much harder to get into the train through the door. So the other KCU passenger gave up and heaved his way in th eopposite direction to the next carriage down . He is not a pushy person! And I'm bloody pleased that he isn't - because that's why he survived.

Try getting on a train with a rucksack in your arms and puitting it on the floor. I often get on a train with my gym kit and then put it between my feet.

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 12 Location: London UK

Rachel said:

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 12 Location: London UK

Front Page burns victim

_________________
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 24

I do not know anyone with burns from the Piccadilly line apart from the person who fell out of the train and was burned by cabling.

I do not know what explosive mixture was used: as you may be aware if you can read what I post or have bothered to look me up I am a commuter, who works in an office, who was on the train on 7th July not an explosives expert.

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 24

And where by the way, did I say it was TATP?

I did not make the bombs, despite some cretinous remarks that I am an M15 agent and that M15 were responsible.

You know, I wonder wh I put myself out here to be baited by you people: there is a limit to how much I can put myself though.

I never hated the bombers, I was even sorry for them, but my God,. there are times when I really find you objectionable.
'
Prole: '' I'm sure Rachel will have an 'explanation' for all of these!''

Why? Do you think I made the bombs?

Chavez:
''Don't expect Rachel to ask any real questions or provide evidence to support her emotive BS. She is using the skeptics to help police fill holes in their fictional account of 7/7 which frames a bunch of innocent guys from Leeds. There is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER they were even in London on 7/7 regardless of whatever emotion or insult Rachel uses to shroud the truth''
How much you getting paid to troll the Internet everyday lying to everyone Rachel? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands to write these lengthy replies at all times of the day. Wouldn't be suprised if your IP traces back to GCHQ

''Stop bloody lying Rachel and show us some proof please.''
''Typical disinfo shill, all BS and no evidence.''

Me: ''And perhaps you would like to suggest the evidence a commuter on a bombed train might be expected to provide?

Apart from that given to the police in the form of witness statements and clothing worn at the time of the blast for forensic examination? '

I am asking you all, individually TO PUT IT OUT THERE FOR ONCE.

What happened? What do you think REALLY happened?

If you have no answers, then I will say to you, it is easy to ask questions. I am doing my best.

As to you, who are you?

Answers, or the rest is silence.

The rest is silence.

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 3 Location: UK

From Rachel's blog: